cluckindan 2 days ago

Because we do not have a complete understanding of human neurons. How are we supposed to accurately model something we cannot directly observe?

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TheDong 2 days ago

Do you also complain when someone says "Half-life 2 has great water-physics" with "Don't call it physics, we still don't understand all the physical laws of the universe, and also they use limited-precision floating-point, so it's not water-physics, it's just a bunch of math"?

Like, we've agreed that "water-physics" and "cloth physics" in 3d graphics refers to a mathematical approximation of something we don't actually understand at the subatomic level (are there strings down there? Who knows).

Can "thinking" in AI not refer to this intentionally false imitation that has a similar observable outward effect?

Like, we're okay saying minecraft's water has "water physics", why are we not okay saying "in the AI context, thinking is a term that externally looks a bit like a human thinking, even though at a deeper layer it's unrelated"?

Or is thinking special, is it like "soul" and we must defend the word with our life else we lose our humanity? If I say "that building's been thinking about falling over for 50 years", did I commit a huge faux pas against my humanity?

autoexec 2 days ago

> Do you also complain when someone says "Half-life 2 has great water-physics"

I would if they said the water in Half-life 2 was great for quenching your thirst or that in the near future everyone will only drink water from Half-life 2 and it will flow from our kitchen taps when it's clear that however good Half-life 2 is at approximating what water looks and acts like it isn't capable of being a beverage and isn't likely to ever become one. Right now there are a lot of people going around saying that what passes for AI these days has the ability to reason and that AGI is right around the corner but that's just as obvious a lie and every bit as unlikely, but the more it gets repeated the more people end up falling for it.

It's frustrating because at some point (if it hasn't happened already) you're going to find yourself feeling very thirsty and be shocked to discover that the only thing you have access to is Half-life 2 water, even though it does nothing for you except make you even more thirsty since it looks close enough to remind you of the real thing. All because some idiot either fell for the hype or saved enough money by not supplying you with real water that they don't care how thirsty that leaves you.

The more companies force the use of flawed and unreasoning AI to do things that require actual reasoning the worse your life is going to get. The constant misrepresentation of AI and what it's capable of is accelerating that outcome.

cluckindan 2 days ago

That’s comparing apples to oranges. Nobody is going to be making a real cruise ship based on game water physics simulations.

In such a task, better water simulations are used. We have those, because we can directly observe the behavior of water under different conditions. It’s okay because the people doing it are explicitly aware that they are using simulation.

AI will get used in real decisions affecting other people, and the people doing those decisions will be influenced by the terminology we choose to use.

inimino 2 days ago

Just because you don't know how does not mean that we can't.

cluckindan 2 days ago

Prove it, then.