nathan_compton 2 days ago

I'm sorry, but I am firmly ensconced in the managerial class of western society and the people around me are not nihilistic materialists. They are, perhaps, liberal in the classical sense, but that isn't nihilistic materialism.

Almost all Americans believe in moral ideals, human rights, etc, etc, etc. Christianity may be in decline, but that is at least partially separate.

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monkeyelite 1 day ago

Well I agree that folk Christianity has morphed into a humanism. But what do those people do if you push on that. What intellectual framework do they use to make sense of the world?

In my experience the humanism part is an unexamined social nicety that isn’t consistent with the rest of their beliefs.

nathan_compton 1 day ago

Genuinely, I think if you push on PMC types you will first, indeed, get some vaguely utilitarian thinking, but then if you push further, you will arrive again at teleological justifications. As far as I can tell, this kind of thinking is basically endemic in the human race and I frankly despair at the possibility of human beings crawling out from beneath it.

Its not a deep observation that you can't be a utilitarian without an enfolding moral framework and most people have one and in western civilization that framework is basically the one inherited from the cultural aether. From my point of view that kind of sloppy thinking is basically the same as believing in God.