aeyes 4 days ago

Ultimately the CEO is responsible. To me it doesn't even matter if the CEO knows about it or not, if not the company has poor governance which is the CEOs full responsibility.

Wirecard CEO has been arrested since 2020, will probably sit for another 10 years.

5
bluGill 4 days ago

The question is should the CEO have know. A CEO that trys to set a culture of doing the right thing, with training on what the right thing is, and other such things can still be deceived by someone low level who cheats. It is possible for one person to cover their tracks for a long time if they are trying to cheat. It can be years to track down who is doing the immoral thing even after you catch something is wrong.

The question this is this one person (or small group) operating against their instructions, or is it the CEO encouraging people to cheat? That can be a hard question, but we want CEOs to think if I do "enough" (whatever that is) to ensure we obey the law I'm okay and thus I want to ensure enough is done. There are always crooks in the world, we want to ensure they are not encourged. If the CEO is always at fault their thought is likely to go to how can I ensure that tracks are covered so they nobody can be convicted.

jajko 4 days ago

Those golden parachutes and lavish lifestyle comes with a cost. That cost is responsibility and risks it brings.

Whether he knew or nit is a matter for courst, but in any case he is responsible too. Punish crooks harsh and visibly, reward honesty and good engineering massively and also visibly and company as a whole will act accordingly. We dont talk about a single guy hacking some firmware build, but a well known company culture.

rurban 4 days ago

Which CEO? Of the 4 big German manufacturers, which conspired do implement these special cheats, or Bosch which implemented this cheat, and supported it as such?

Or the politicians who wrote into law to able to use such a cheating device?

That would be 5 CEO's plus at least 2 german politicians, plus 20 more politicians in all other countries which selected this cheating EU standard.

rightbyte 4 days ago

Wanting to use velocity profiles to set exhaust treatment parameters during warm up of the engine is totally reasonable.

Bosh's software is tunable to silly extents to avoid expensive vehicle testing as testing is tied to binaries due to bad processes.

You can more or less make a different program by changing 'parameters'.

I really think it might be unfortunate if this would extend into a crusade versus general computing.

autobodie 4 days ago

That is extremely wreckless. The board is unquestionably the most responsible party.

DocTomoe 4 days ago

Wirecard CEO was proven beyond reasonable doubt that he personally was involved in large-scale fraud.

AnimalMuppet 4 days ago

I believe "knew or should have known" is the legal statement. Ignorance (either deliberate or accidental) doesn't get you off the hook.

nthingtohide 4 days ago

Rhodesia solution is magnificient in this case.

Sending A Letter To The PM | Yes Minister | BBC Comedy Greats

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE6lpKkcFQY

brookst 4 days ago

But negligence is fundamentally different from mens rea. Fine to punish both but I am not a fan of justice intentionally ignoring context.

dragonwriter 4 days ago

> But negligence is fundamentally different from mens rea

It differs in that mens rea is the legal concept of a culpable state of mind, and negligence is one example. More fully, a crime is generally defined by a prohibited act (actua reus) and a wrongful state of mind (mens rea), though there are strict liability crimes with no mens rea required.

For, say, murder (in common law, specific statutory schemes may diverge from this somewhat), the actus reus is homicide, and the mens rea is “malice aforethought”.

While “malice aforethought” is sui generis and seen only in murder, the common kinds of mens rea used in defining crimes, in descending order of the severity with which they are usually treated, are intent, recklessness, and negligence. (The same mental states are relevant in tort liability, though strict liability in tort is more common, and the civil and criminal definitions of negligence, particularly, are somewhat different.)