piva00 13 days ago

Curious what exactly differs between EU and USA to make American transfers so inefficient time-wise. In the Eurozone SEPA instant transfers are settled in seconds (usually under 10 seconds, with max 20 seconds allowed), and AML/KYC regulations are quite strong.

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hocuspocus 13 days ago

EU directives have forced banks to modernize at a pace that wouldn't have been possible if we just let the free market decide. There are downsides to the heavy regulatory framework, for instance the unhealthy consolidation and size of systemic banks. But we enjoy pretty advanced banking services and arguably the most flourishing fintech ecosystem by worldwide standards, mostly thanks to EU technocrats.

jorvi 13 days ago

The EU is also looking into creating a digital euro ("eurocoin", so to speak). The basic idea being to break the power and thus risk of systemic banks.

You'd have an account at the ECB that you can keep your digital euros in and exchange to and for liquid euros. You'd get the ECB interest rate.

Then if banks want to convince you to hold your eurocoin on their wallet / exchange / stake it, they'd have to offer better features and better interest than the ECB.

Sadly banks are in full swing trying to torpedo the proposal with lobbying, to the point where there's a lot of noise about the ECB only being allowed to be a facilitator and not allowed to be actual competition to the bank, and instead it's banks that should get the sole right to hold digital euro accounts.

> But we enjoy pretty advanced banking services and arguably the most flourishing fintech ecosystem by worldwide standards

Interestingly enough the US does have very modern financial institutions: credit unions. An American woman I met in Vietnam and traveled together with for a bit had a Charles Schwab account that had more features, more free overseas withdrawals and a nicer mobile app than my Dutch bank. It was almost on par with Revolut / N26 / Bunq.

solumos 13 days ago

> Interestingly enough the US does have very modern financial institutions: credit unions. An American woman I met in Vietnam and traveled together with for a bit had a Charles Schwab account that had more features, more free overseas withdrawals and a nicer mobile app than my Dutch bank.

Charles Schwab is the 12th largest bank in the US by assets.

I do agree that credit unions can be great, however, the experience between them is wildly inconsistent. Some have apps that barely work, and some have decent apps that are a bit dated and clunky. The big banks generally have the best UX/support/etc.

nayuki 13 days ago

> The EU is also looking into creating a digital euro

It's weird to call it a "digital euro" because the euro is already digitized by traditional banks! At an existing traditional bank, your balance is already a discrete number. Money can be sent and received electronically on communications networks without using physical media like coins and bills and cheques.

roenxi 13 days ago

> EU directives have forced banks to modernize at a pace that wouldn't have been possible if we just let the free market decide

1) Is that automatically good? Damn those capitalists and their slow and steady approach to major changes, I suppose. Wouldn't want to proceed too thoughtfully.

2) The free market in banking looks pretty much exactly like the crypto ecosystem. As people often put it, speedrunning banking history. The only thing slowing the financial institutions down is the regulation (which is pretty much the pro-regulation argument of "if we don't regulate it they'll do a bunch of stupid things too quickly").

There isn't something of a free market in banking but the limitations are extreme enough that it is more of a heavily mixed to centralised one. Interest rates are managed by a central committee and banks provide any colour of service you like as long as it is black. Typically heavy KYC regulations to link the system to law enforcement and state intelligence systems. There is enough freedom to keep the fees fair and a bit of flexibility in what the money gets invested in which is pretty good. But for transaction speed I'd actually be a little surprised if the banks were allowed to control their own settlement timelines; I assume going to quickly would start running in to KYC-style compliance problems.

mathgeek 13 days ago

> 1) Is that automatically good? Damn those capitalists and their slow and steady approach to major changes, I suppose. Wouldn't want to proceed too thoughtfully.

Considering how long it’s taken even the most progressive regulations to be enacted, it’s arguable that we’ve done anything but proceed without thoughtfulness towards how these changes affect the other 99% of the population.

We sure do spend a lot of time letting the wealthiest folks skim those points off the top without spending any more than they are required to by regulations, though.

toast0 13 days ago

The US has almost 4,500 banks and about the same number of credit unions. They're subject to federal and state regulation. That's a lot of complexity to manage.

However, there's FedNow immediate transfers, Zelle (consortium of banks) immediate transfers, same day ach (several batches daily), same day fed wire transfers within banking hours, and that's just the faster options.

Decentralized systemd are slow to act and slow to change, which is why all of the faster banking initiatives tend to involve a centralized element.

kevin_thibedeau 13 days ago

Zelle is a frontend to ACH with some creative accounting until the actual transfer clears.

Animats 13 days ago

Right. FedNow really is "now", which makes the fraud problem worse. FedNow is currently handling about a half-billion dollars a day, which is not much for that industry.

dboreham 13 days ago

The US has much more corruption so banks have been able to bribe politicians into not requiring they provide low cost services that would mean their executives have smaller boats.

edgarvaldes 13 days ago

Same in Mexico. I just did a bank transfer that took longer than usual. It took around 10 minutes instead of 10 seconds. It was unusual for me.

wbl 13 days ago

You really don't want one typo costing your entire bank account as a consumer. Settlement delays permit easy rollback.

UltraSane 13 days ago

US banks like slow transactions due to fraud concerns.

arandomusername 13 days ago

just an additional note, the instant transfer is only up to 15k euro